Talk:Reaper
An Idea... We know that the reapers are resemble to each other, but they were made from different species. I think they resemble because each of the species they were made of, were made by the reapers from a former. They used one species and rewrited them every time. (maybe their builders were the first to be redesigned that way). When the time came, They simply wiped out every other races, and used the created one to build a new reaper. This would explain why the protheans resemble to reapers so much: They might be created by the reapers, but for unknown reasons they became unusable. They may used the species what they created and modifided after every cycle, BUT the protheans failed. After it they decided to create the collectors, to find a new race to build from. :So... the Protheans were created by the Reapers? It doesn't make sense. We know that the Protheans evolved on their own, and that the Reapers apparently did try to use the Protheans to create a Reaper, which failed. We also know that the Reapers didn't build the Collectors as a completely new race or whatever. It's pretty explicitly stated in-game that the Collectors were once Protheans that were modified by the Reapers. So the Protheans apparently weren't that unusable to the Reapers. SpartHawg948 19:17, August 8, 2010 (UTC) :.............. :I meant that the protheans were unusable to create a new reaper, so the reapers made the collectors from them. Anyway I can't remember any source from the game what directly mentions that " the protheans evolved here and here". And 50 000 years is a long time, so even the protheans couldn't know that the planet where their ancestors lived on is not their biological home. What I thought about ( that the reapers created the races what the new reapers were made of) is something like the... err... Panzer IV. The germans used the chassis of the Pz. IV. to build Anti-Air and infantry support vehicles. these were different things, but the basis is the same. Imagine that the race ( The Panzer IV in my metaphor) were slain by the reapers and a reaper was made from them. The few survivor of the race were modifided and made in to a new race (The AA vehicle to return to the metaphor) and the reapers let them evolve. After a time they made a reaper from that race too, and made a new race from the survivors again. And it continued to the protheans, who have failed. after it they had to find a new race. Something like that. Any questions left? ::Yeah. Why didn't the Panzer IV (i.e. the Protheans) work? I mean, central to your theory is that the Protheans were created by the Reapers. Why did they create a big 'ol pile of crap that didn't do what it was supposed to? I mean, we've seen that they can create things that work to their specifications. Now we're to believe that, despite all those millenia of practice and experience, they created a failed race like the Protheans? Again, there are way too many things here that just don't make sense. SpartHawg948 19:51, August 9, 2010 (UTC) ::Even the reapers can make mistakes. when they left the protheans on their "homeworld", they were not able to intervent in their evolution. The protheans may evolved on a different path than they should have. And imagine: after you used a paper to draw a figure, and rubber and redraw it 1000 times, the paper will be dirty, and the new figure will be ugly. the reapers used the same genetic pattern too much times, and because this, and an unknown thing on their homeworld may the protheans evolved on a way what caused irrepairable mistakes. :::So, I'm confused now. Because if we're to keep following the Panzer IV analogy, the Protheans aren't a piece of paper that's been drawn on too many times. They'd be a purpose built race. Which analogy is it? The Panzer, or the paper? Either way, I'm still far from sold on the theory. SpartHawg948 07:32, August 10, 2010 (UTC) :::Now i understand why Liara always used that melding thing... The paper is the first race, the figure is the modifications made on the genetic structure, and the rubbering is the rewrite. the basis is always the same. ::::Ah, answers that don't really answer the question. So the Panzer IV analogy is out? SpartHawg948 07:44, August 10, 2010 (UTC) ::::I think we should leave it. the paper and figure thing is more understandeble. But you understand now what was i thinking about, do you? :::::I do, but I still don't buy into the theory. SpartHawg948 07:48, August 10, 2010 (UTC) :::::OK. but at least we understad each other now. ::::::Indeed! :) SpartHawg948 07:54, August 10, 2010 (UTC) How did they build them? How exactly did the Reapers build the Mass Relay and the Citadel anyway? I'm assuming they built them before any other races came, considering the Mass Relays and the Citadel are vital to the cycle of extinction the Reapers hold so dear. I'm asking why because, considering the size ratio between the Reapers and the Relays, and the fact that Reaper "Arms" don't seem very flexible. They could use some kind of telekinesis, but I'm not sure. Thoughts? biomanzilla 8:35, August 10, 2010 (UTC) Possibly they had telekinesis but something more tech savvy would be a gravity beam of some sort (for example Dead Space). What has me confused is WHAT did they make it with? It OBVIOUSLY has to be a super metal of some sort but why would the Council Races NOT check what they are made out of, the metal can withstand a supernova so why not build ships with that stuff?Tj2592 02:37, August 11, 2010 (UTC) Well I don't know where it says the Mass Relays can withstand a supernova, but the Protheans managed to reverse engineer the Relays to an extent (The Conduit). The Matriarch on Illium (her name eludes me) suggested that the Asari build their own Mass Relays, but the idea was rejected. Don't really know why the Council didn't do anything with the Relays though. biomanzilla 12:07, August 11, 2010 (UTC) The Mu relay from ME one was knocked out of position from a supernova without suffering any damage. You need the Mu relay to get to Ilos to go through the Conduit.Tj2592 14:19, August 12, 2010 (UTC) Oh, I had forgotten about that. biomanzilla2:51, August 12, 2010 (UTC) Origins In my opinion, the Reapers use to be simple ships used by an ancient spacerafing race. The ships were also designed to control minds, the power of indocrination. Then their creators installed AI programs like EDI inside them. One day the AIs rebelled, much like what the geth did to the quarians. The next thing the creators knew, they were being indocrinated and wiped out by their own machines. I don't know if this theory is correct, but its the only one that makes sense. The geth refer to the Reapers as the Old Machines, Sovereign also said that the Reapers were non-organic life forms. Let me know what you think. --FIKUS96 19:02, September 19, 2010 (UTC) :So... why the apparent need for organic material in their construction? And why does EDI tell Shepard he (or she) is incorrect in assuming that the Reapers are mere machines, commenting that they are actually machine/organic hybrids? SpartHawg948 20:44, September 19, 2010 (UTC) I agree with FIKUS96's construction part, perhaps they where biologically engineered to be organic/mechanical hybrids, like the main ship in farscape. Beamonde 16:47, December 13, 2010 (UTC) Assuming Direct Control I noticed that Reapers seemingly have an ability to control "Reaperfied" beings like Collectors or subjects with a great deal of implants like Saren. All points to another potential ability of the Reapers: Direct Control. A reaper can control one of their implanted servants, allowing them to be extremely powerful and easily overwhelm all resistance while amplifying their combat abilities. Of course it has a side effect of permanently damaging the lifeform when under control and if killed will disintergrate completely. Of course the only known exception was Greyson. :But the Reapers weren't able to control Saren. Certainly not like they did the Collectors. They only had direct and full control over Saren's corpse. He himself was still able to exert control over his own body while alive. And what happened to Saren and what happened t Greyson appear to be two very, very different things, and both of those are vastly removed from what happened to the Collectors. Not really strong evidence for a potential new ability. SpartHawg948 07:27, December 3, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah they had 50,000 years give or take, to modify the Protheans into the Collectors and had pretty much direct control over what happened with them. In those 50,000 years, the Reapers could take their time and as Mordin states, replace things with tech, which allowed them to directly control the Collectors. This is a completely different case from Saren and Grayson. ::Both Grayson and Saren of whom were controlled in different ways. Sovereign could only control Saren's corpse, as Saren fought and depending on your actions, killed himself while still under Sovereign's indoctrination. On the other hand, Grayson was transformed, thanks to Cerberus, and slowly indoctrinated, which we know with the latter, can be extremely hard to resist. See Matriarch Benezia for one example of that. So I also don't think this is a new ability, just something they could do with the Collectors because they had the time to control their "evolution", what happened with the "species", and make sure they did it right. Lancer1289 13:08, December 3, 2010(UTC) ::: It was more about excessive implanting (as in receiving full reaper implanting rather then just indoctrinated). While Indoctrination is part of the package. Only those with reaper implantation has a chance of control, and even then it was more of a desperate measure by Reapers when their subject is dead (Saren) or dying (Collectors) 18:39, December 3, 2010 (UTC) ::::No, it seems to me that it's not excessive implanting so much as it is two entirely different processes, with what happened to the Collectors being a third and entirely different process altogether. You have to figure, in implantation, like what happened to Grayson, the Reapers do exert direct control, at least once they have superseded the person whose body they were implanted in. However, in the case of indoctrination, such as what happened to Saren and Benezia, we have seen no evidence whatsoever of direct control on the part of the Reapers. Merely strong mental suggestion. What happened to Saren's corpse after his death had nothing to do with indoctrination. Rather, it was due to implants which Saren appears to have received because the indoctrination was not working. And then there's the Collectors. I don't think anyone can argue that anything that happened to Grayson or Saren even remotely resembles what was done to the Protheans who became Collectors... SpartHawg948 20:49, December 3, 2010 (UTC) :::::I can't even see the resemblance between the three. What happened to the Collectors is completely different to what happened to Saren and Grayson. If it boiled right down to implants, then wouldn't have Benezia and her commandos have to have the same level of implants as Saren or Grayson did? I can't remember Benezia mentioning anything about implants, and I'm certain that the writers wouldn't have left that out. Lancer1289 21:02, December 3, 2010 (UTC) :::::: That was because most of their indoctrinated folks weren't implanted, but Collectors, Saren and Grayson were. The conclusion is that reaper implants can allow a direct takeover and power boost which comes at the cause of permanent body damage. If their subject dies the reaper will suffer from the feedback and the host is destroyed as we saw from the countless collectors controlled by Harbinger and Sovereign: reduced to ashes. Surprisingly Grayson was intact :::::::No... that conclusion only flies if you very, and I mean very, selectively cherry-pick the evidence from those cases. "The conclusion is that reaper implants can allow a direct takeover and power boost which comes at the cause of permanent body damage." Nothing about that sentence matches with Saren. Nada. At no point in time did the Reapers directly take over or assume control of Saren. Once he was dead, they reanimated his corpse. That's it. From what we've seen (and Paul Grayson and the Reapers give us a phenomenal example of this when the Reapers, acting through Grayson, attempt to work their Indoctrination magic on Kahlee Sanders, only to be interrupted by Anderson), Indoctrination and implantation are two totally different things. And, given the unique nature of how it works for the Collectors (i.e. we never witness Harbinger taking over a Collector drone directly, it always happens via the Collector General), that would appear to likely be something else as well. Perhaps, as the Codex posits, biology is a factor in the case of the Collectors. SpartHawg948 07:07, December 4, 2010 (UTC) Spoiler warning Having already played ME2 This article had no surprises except that following the ME1 spoiler warning there is none for ME2, just take a look at the first section and you will find that it is almost nothing but spoilers for ME2 (such as the fact that reapers use sapient races for reproduction) unfortunately i have no idea how to add the tag but a spoiler tag is needed or any section containing ME2 spoilers has to be moved below the existing tag 23:51, December 10, 2010 (UTC) :I've moved the ME2 spoiler tag to the top of the page. -- Commdor (Talk) 23:53, December 10, 2010 (UTC) ::(edit conflict)Yeah the tag probably needs to be moved. There is one in there, further down, but there are apparently some further up. Moving to just below the ToC. Lancer1289 23:56, December 10, 2010 (UTC) To kill a Reaper... Heres a thought that i have considered for some time while playing mass effect 2, their machines, that means that they are vunrable to EMP, as they use electricity and other forms of energy that could be vunrable to EMP. it would be interesting to see some kind of weapon of mass destruction used to kill the reapers across the galaxy... useing there own technology against them (mass relays)to deploy these EMP weapons and then cause them to go off simultainiously or otherwise and kill the reapers... In Fact (according to the story) the citadel is an inactive mass relay to where the reapers dwell, if the events of mass effect 2's end took time then they could kill the reapers before they even got there. please input other ideas or modifications to this idea below this idea.... i look forward to the feedback. Beamonde 16:09, December 13, 2010 (UTC) :Yeah one problem with the EMP theory, ships and tech can be shielded against EMPs, and I think the Reapers, remember they are capitalized, are probably shielded. They wouldn't leave themselves vunerable to an EMP, considering they are machines. Lancer1289 18:14, December 13, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah, we can already shield against EMPs today. I highly doubt that Reapers would be susceptible to something so basic, and so obvious, as an EMP. SpartHawg948 18:49, December 13, 2010 (UTC) They also use Mass effect cores to power themselves, and those things are powerful, I don't know if a magnetic pulse could take one down. Agow95 20:50, December 13, 2010 (UTC) Magnetic sounds decent, how would you use it as a pulse though, what if some other type of weapon stripped them of there shields. the magnetic idea reminds me of magnetic rockets from crimson skies on the old xbox. *Idea: Mass Effect cores, could a mass effect core be used as a weapon, as Agow95 mentions, and in mass effect 2 when that thing goes out there goes the reaper, any ideas... Beamonde 15:15, December 14, 2010 (UTC) They probably wouldn't use EMPs, but about Mass Effect cores, maybe not as a bomb, but couldn't you crash a ship into a Reaper at FTL speed like that one planet on Cerberus news. --Paladin cross 16:13, December 14, 2010 (UTC) :Good luck hitting a moving target that way. It worked against a planet because planets are more or less stationary, their orbits and rotations plotted out and easily predictable. A moving ship? Not so much. All the Reaper has to do is move... SpartHawg948 17:02, December 14, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah good luck in hitting that. Hitting any moving target is extrememly difficult. Lancer1289 17:39, December 14, 2010 (UTC) what a bout a kind of mass effect pulse, there is a way, what do you guys think. refering to the image, the mass accelerator cannon seemed to work well agains that reaper so maybe its not that easy to move... Beamonde 18:22, December 14, 2010 (UTC) :(edit conflict)Except that modern shielding against EMPs is not like that kind of shielding. Sure you can strip away kinetic barriers, but the EMP shielding probably needs to be shot off, and it would be highly protected. As to the Mass Effect Core, yes we know they can be used as a nuclear weapon, but that really isn't an effective weapon. You would need to not only be accurate, it would need to be extremely powerful. Both of those are either extremely difficult, or extremely unrealistic respectively. As to a Mass Effect Pulse, I have no idea what you are talking about. Lancer1289 18:24, December 14, 2010 (UTC) :As to the Mass Accelerator Cannon, that was probably a one and a million shot. And you know how often those happen. And I'm not sure what you mean by it's not that easy to move. Lancer1289 18:25, December 14, 2010 (UTC) I figure its a large ship that and that manuverability would be an issue, therefore relativly easy to hit but you do have a point... Paladin cross mentioned FTL ramming but one could be shot down by the reaper... not to mention when sovereign attacked the citadel with the geth fleet it rammed a turian cruiser and blew right past it with no issue... what do you think... how to kill a reaper... Beamonde 18:31, December 14, 2010 (UTC) :More problems. We know that Sovereign is capable of making turns that would sheer any Alliance Ship in half. Now we don’t' know if that is the case for other Reaper ships, but I'm willing to bet it is, so I highly doubt maneuverability is an issue. Just because something is large, doesn't mean that is isn't maneuverable or that it is easy to hit. FTL Ramming is a one an a billion, probably more, shot against a moving target, there are so many things that you would have to get right, and in the right sequence for that to work. As to the armor of a Reaper, while we only have Sovereign for comparison, we can assume that it is extremely strong. After all. We know that Sovereign wasn't, or couldn't be damaged until after Shepard and the squad took down Saren's corpse...thing. Lancer1289 18:39, December 14, 2010 (UTC) i was thinking about harbinger.... i agree on manuverability after all there not like other ships ingame. However, could a small-medium ship out-manuveur a reaper, one that is specifically capable of engageing a reaper. also you mentioned that saren's husk(?) thingwas crucial to sovereign's existance is it possable that the reapers coming in the next game dont having similar things... so wouldent they be vunrable? or would they already have those Beamonde 15:11, December 15, 2010 (UTC) :We don't know about a Reaper's maneuverability so we don't know if a ship can outmaneuver them. Saren's implant corpse thing was not crucial to Sovereign's existence, considering it survived without it for quite tome time, which if it was crucial, then Sovereign couldn't have survived without it. However Sovereign was probably stunned, or the machine equivalent, when it was killed, leaving it venerable. I highly doubt the Reapers have similar weaknesses considering they have been sitting in dark space for about 50,000 years so how could they acquire those, let alone why would they repeat the mistakes that one of their own did, resulting in its destruction. The Reapers would have some type of weakness, but we will just have to wait and see. Lancer1289 16:31, December 15, 2010 (UTC) ::And how would this super-maneuverable "small-medium ship" even engage a Reaper? You've given no indication other than to say that it wold be specifically capable of engaging a Reaper... which says nothing. We know Reapers can withstand even the firepower of a dreadnought, so a small ship would need some brand-new superweapons in order to even stand a chance. There's a lot more here than just maneuverability to consider. SpartHawg948 17:58, December 15, 2010 (UTC)